Tomorrows post will be on voyeurism and Southern Baptist Blogs. The 21st century cyber train wreck!
Because Jesus is all that really matters!
Jack
Wednesday, January 07, 2009
Transitions
Monday, June 04, 2007
A Resolution I can support
Folks, If we can't agree on this one we are in lot more trouble than any of us would believe!
FOR THE KIDS!
FOR THE KIDS!
Sunday, June 03, 2007
A Repost edited for SA
I thought I would join some other bloggers and re post from last year. I have edited it to match this years convention. Unfortunately not much has changed.
I will never forget it, circa early to mid 90's. Every year I would attend the Baptist General Convention of Texas and subject myself and our church messengers to the onslaught of moderate opposition to anything that remotely looked like the SBC. I recall the unkind words and the absolute anger that resonated from the moderate movers and shakers in Texas. One thing I was very aware of, these folks were mad! They were mad because their vision and idea of what the SBC should be had been 'taken' from them. The Power hungry, political, maniacal, uncaring, theological blood thirsty FUNDIES had 'stolen' the convention. IT WAS A TAKEOVER!!!! And to them the machine had its eyes on TEXAS! Their battle cry? "Not on our Watch!" "We will save BAYLOR from the Fundies!" How did they save Baylor? They stole it, but that's another story. So the moderates began their campaign to 'save' Texas from the 'evil empire'. What about this fundamentalist machine, which had its eyes on Texas? Some machine! The closest thing that it ever came to what could be called a takeover was garnishing about 42% of the presidential vote one year. We could not even get a clear word on abortion through the resolutions process. What machine? The machine was so great and strong that it finally shut down and started it's own convention, which is 1/2 the size of the very moderate BGCT.There was no MACHINEThere was no attempt at takeoverThere was no back room leadershipWhat there was however was Baptist who had a differing view on how a denomination or better yet a convention ought to represent the churches in its membership. In the case of Texas, the moderates won...fair enough...Baptist vote, somebody prevails, somebody does not. That's the way it is.
In our National convention that's the way it is also. There is a political process in all of this because that is the polity to which we hold. We are a body politic. Our politics are based upon our theology, or ideology and our methodology. This is not anything new folks. Baptist have always been a people of schism. Fortunately in Texas we recognize this in the Southern Baptist of Texas Convention and we do require theological accountability in order to be a cooperating church. This works well for us on the theological level. It insures that our battles will be family affairs and will not fall under the auspice of doctrinal infidelity.There are those who see some kind of a draconian, dark, behind the scenes machine that exists in the current SBC. It sounds a lot like the conspiracy theories about the area 51 cover up, The 'illuminati', 'Big Brother' watching. No one can be in charge except the 'dark masters' say so. It really would be quite humorous except in the entire fray people get maligned and hurt. (And I do realize it cuts both ways)
The truth of the matter is the current SBC leadership is more like the town of Stanton, Texas than it is the former Moscow, Russia. On the outside of the Stanton city limits some time back there was a sign that read "WELCOME TO STANTON, HOME OF THE FINEST FOLKS IN THE WORLD... AND JUST A FEW SORE HEADS!" In Southern Baptist leadership I will assure you we have some of the finest folks around...and probably a few soreheads also! Are there people in the SBC enamored with their position? Probably. Could there be folks who say and do unkind things? I would imagine. Are there those who use their positions for personal privilege? It is certainly possible. But the truth is that most if not the very greatest part of the trustees, agency heads, leaders, movers and shakers in the SBC are folks who are just like us. They are Pastors, Missionaries, professors, teachers, deacons, mothers and fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers who love the Lord and love the SBC. There greatest concern is not the convention itself but their local church and what is going on there. They have been appointed by people who know them and respect them (And may even be related to them...GASP!!!!!!) who believe they will do a good job representing the best interest of the convention. We as Baptist trust them to do so. Almost always they do a grand job. If they betray our trust we have a system to deal with it through the convention.If we disagree with them from time to time (and we will ) we have the right to say so. And if there needs to be change, we see to it that it happens (Can you say 1979?)
But to demonize, malign, and call into question ones integrity based upon who is appointed and who is not based upon a body politic, all the while you have the privilege to take part in the same process...well that is wrong, and most Baptist know it! It also betrays the very strong convictions that the majority of Baptist hold to as demonstrated by recent votes. To say that the "machine' dictates and runs things is to say that Baptist people cannot think for their selves and regulate their own convention. Again, can you say 1979?We have a great convention...We will have a grand time in San Antonio as we meet to fellowship, sing, preach, witness and serve together. Yes, we will have a business meeting or two also...we will debate motions and resolutions. Baptist will vote, Baptist will win and Baptist will lose. Then we will all go back home to the local church where life happens. My prayer is that what we say and how we say it in San Antonio will not make our jobs even more difficult once we get home. I just wish we would practice the same thing on some of our blogs!
Jack "The Reposter" Maddox
I will never forget it, circa early to mid 90's. Every year I would attend the Baptist General Convention of Texas and subject myself and our church messengers to the onslaught of moderate opposition to anything that remotely looked like the SBC. I recall the unkind words and the absolute anger that resonated from the moderate movers and shakers in Texas. One thing I was very aware of, these folks were mad! They were mad because their vision and idea of what the SBC should be had been 'taken' from them. The Power hungry, political, maniacal, uncaring, theological blood thirsty FUNDIES had 'stolen' the convention. IT WAS A TAKEOVER!!!! And to them the machine had its eyes on TEXAS! Their battle cry? "Not on our Watch!" "We will save BAYLOR from the Fundies!" How did they save Baylor? They stole it, but that's another story. So the moderates began their campaign to 'save' Texas from the 'evil empire'. What about this fundamentalist machine, which had its eyes on Texas? Some machine! The closest thing that it ever came to what could be called a takeover was garnishing about 42% of the presidential vote one year. We could not even get a clear word on abortion through the resolutions process. What machine? The machine was so great and strong that it finally shut down and started it's own convention, which is 1/2 the size of the very moderate BGCT.There was no MACHINEThere was no attempt at takeoverThere was no back room leadershipWhat there was however was Baptist who had a differing view on how a denomination or better yet a convention ought to represent the churches in its membership. In the case of Texas, the moderates won...fair enough...Baptist vote, somebody prevails, somebody does not. That's the way it is.
In our National convention that's the way it is also. There is a political process in all of this because that is the polity to which we hold. We are a body politic. Our politics are based upon our theology, or ideology and our methodology. This is not anything new folks. Baptist have always been a people of schism. Fortunately in Texas we recognize this in the Southern Baptist of Texas Convention and we do require theological accountability in order to be a cooperating church. This works well for us on the theological level. It insures that our battles will be family affairs and will not fall under the auspice of doctrinal infidelity.There are those who see some kind of a draconian, dark, behind the scenes machine that exists in the current SBC. It sounds a lot like the conspiracy theories about the area 51 cover up, The 'illuminati', 'Big Brother' watching. No one can be in charge except the 'dark masters' say so. It really would be quite humorous except in the entire fray people get maligned and hurt. (And I do realize it cuts both ways)
The truth of the matter is the current SBC leadership is more like the town of Stanton, Texas than it is the former Moscow, Russia. On the outside of the Stanton city limits some time back there was a sign that read "WELCOME TO STANTON, HOME OF THE FINEST FOLKS IN THE WORLD... AND JUST A FEW SORE HEADS!" In Southern Baptist leadership I will assure you we have some of the finest folks around...and probably a few soreheads also! Are there people in the SBC enamored with their position? Probably. Could there be folks who say and do unkind things? I would imagine. Are there those who use their positions for personal privilege? It is certainly possible. But the truth is that most if not the very greatest part of the trustees, agency heads, leaders, movers and shakers in the SBC are folks who are just like us. They are Pastors, Missionaries, professors, teachers, deacons, mothers and fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers who love the Lord and love the SBC. There greatest concern is not the convention itself but their local church and what is going on there. They have been appointed by people who know them and respect them (And may even be related to them...GASP!!!!!!) who believe they will do a good job representing the best interest of the convention. We as Baptist trust them to do so. Almost always they do a grand job. If they betray our trust we have a system to deal with it through the convention.If we disagree with them from time to time (and we will ) we have the right to say so. And if there needs to be change, we see to it that it happens (Can you say 1979?)
But to demonize, malign, and call into question ones integrity based upon who is appointed and who is not based upon a body politic, all the while you have the privilege to take part in the same process...well that is wrong, and most Baptist know it! It also betrays the very strong convictions that the majority of Baptist hold to as demonstrated by recent votes. To say that the "machine' dictates and runs things is to say that Baptist people cannot think for their selves and regulate their own convention. Again, can you say 1979?We have a great convention...We will have a grand time in San Antonio as we meet to fellowship, sing, preach, witness and serve together. Yes, we will have a business meeting or two also...we will debate motions and resolutions. Baptist will vote, Baptist will win and Baptist will lose. Then we will all go back home to the local church where life happens. My prayer is that what we say and how we say it in San Antonio will not make our jobs even more difficult once we get home. I just wish we would practice the same thing on some of our blogs!
Jack "The Reposter" Maddox
Blogs, Baptist's and Being Fed Up!
I have been blogging now for about a year or so. Most of my blogging is my commenting on other blogs. Perhaps this is because I struggle with the original thought! Blogging here of late has taken on quite a nasty tone if you will. When I started last year we were bantering on about the MD and villa rica, Ben was a Baptist Cat (I think) and Wade was a victim. My how things have changed in a year or so. In the last year we have heard everything from 'spooky' fundamentalist to 'militant' fundamentalist to even allegation of a Nazi like mindset and even, God help us, racism.
One blogger even came to this conclusion... HERE... I do not blame him
I am a Baptist. Along with that comes a certain amount of disagreement and the elevation of personal opinion. I have made no secret my disagreement with wade Burleson's vision for the SBC. I have met Wade and I believe him to be a wonderful man of God who loves the Lord. Yet his brand of unity comes with to high a price. Wade would counter that people like me simply want to control what people think and believe. That our vision of the SBC is exclusive and dictatorial...HOGWASH! To control what a Baptist believes is like trying to control the Niagara...Wade knows this. My guess is that Wade and Ben Cole and many who support them are driven by something more than a mere object to their perception of theology to rigid. I do not know what it is nor would I venture a guess. The sad thing is that many of the points that they have made are good ones. Many of their concerns are shared by others...but the attacks on the character and ideologies of those they disagree with are to much for many. It is certainly to much for me. At times I have responded in kind and the Lord has taken me to task for it.
I guess it comes down to this. I have simply had it with folks being called everything from fat to ignorant. I am tired of Godly men being 'persecuted' by personal documents being published on the web. I am tired for people with great conviction being vilified and our current SBC system being maligned. I guess I am just tired. I am not saying that there should not be principled dissent...I am just saying that dissent ought to be done in a way that does not demean or seek to belittle others in whom we may disagree.
A lot of my fatigue comes from pastoring a church that in many ways reflects the Baptist blogosphere. I am going to San Antonio not just to vote, stand and share my convictions, but to spend some time away with my 'righteous fox' ...the lovely Mrs. Maddox. We as a couple need some direction and focus in our own ministry.
I hope to see and meet many of you there. I have been called every thing this last year from ignorant, to spooky, to sarcastic to mean spirited and a racist, If you see me in San Antonio just call me Bro. Jack...I am to tired and a little fed up to really debate anything else.
Jack "I am fed up with Baptists" Maddox
One blogger even came to this conclusion... HERE... I do not blame him
I am a Baptist. Along with that comes a certain amount of disagreement and the elevation of personal opinion. I have made no secret my disagreement with wade Burleson's vision for the SBC. I have met Wade and I believe him to be a wonderful man of God who loves the Lord. Yet his brand of unity comes with to high a price. Wade would counter that people like me simply want to control what people think and believe. That our vision of the SBC is exclusive and dictatorial...HOGWASH! To control what a Baptist believes is like trying to control the Niagara...Wade knows this. My guess is that Wade and Ben Cole and many who support them are driven by something more than a mere object to their perception of theology to rigid. I do not know what it is nor would I venture a guess. The sad thing is that many of the points that they have made are good ones. Many of their concerns are shared by others...but the attacks on the character and ideologies of those they disagree with are to much for many. It is certainly to much for me. At times I have responded in kind and the Lord has taken me to task for it.
I guess it comes down to this. I have simply had it with folks being called everything from fat to ignorant. I am tired of Godly men being 'persecuted' by personal documents being published on the web. I am tired for people with great conviction being vilified and our current SBC system being maligned. I guess I am just tired. I am not saying that there should not be principled dissent...I am just saying that dissent ought to be done in a way that does not demean or seek to belittle others in whom we may disagree.
A lot of my fatigue comes from pastoring a church that in many ways reflects the Baptist blogosphere. I am going to San Antonio not just to vote, stand and share my convictions, but to spend some time away with my 'righteous fox' ...the lovely Mrs. Maddox. We as a couple need some direction and focus in our own ministry.
I hope to see and meet many of you there. I have been called every thing this last year from ignorant, to spooky, to sarcastic to mean spirited and a racist, If you see me in San Antonio just call me Bro. Jack...I am to tired and a little fed up to really debate anything else.
Jack "I am fed up with Baptists" Maddox
Saturday, December 16, 2006
The Call of God and the Privilege of Ministry
Tomorrow morning we will have a young man leading our worship and coming before our people in view of a call as our New minister of music and Youth. He is 24 years old and this will be his first full time position. He will also be attending SWBTS part time as he attempts to balance a busy schedule which includes leading and planning worship, leading a very busy student ministry, learning how to be a good husband (He is newly married) and learning a new church field. WOW! Crazy huh? Not to mention that he will not be making a whole lot of money, although I think for a smaller membership church we do ok...We will provide him with a parsonage and a salary comparable to a first year teacher. Anyway, we are excited about this as a church and we are also a little bummed. Why are we bummed? Because he will be taking the place of our music minister who has served for 32 years in the same position. WOW!!! Why is he stepping down? Because he realizes that we need a full time student minister and his setting aside his bi-vocational salary will allow us to do just that. He is placing the church and her needs before his own needs and wants. What an act of selfless sacrifice that even though the call of God has been rich and full in his long ministry in our church, he recognizes that sometimes God does a new thing. He will stay in the church and continue to serve as a deacon and our Choir director. The young man in question is named Andy Kumor and his wife's name is Heather. Pray for them...They are so excited about the prospect of coming. You would think we were FBC Dallas! Their zeal and excitement takes me back almost 20 years ago when my wife and I were getting ready to go to Tuscola Texas for our first church. I KNEW EVERYTHING!!!! Thankfully, over the years I have forgotten much of what I knew then : )
You see, Andy and Heather only see the potential...They do not see the pitfalls and the struggles. They see souls to be saved, students to disciple and a church that needs them. I hope our folks will realize this tomorrow...That we to need to see the potential...That of a young man and a young women who are just ready to be used of God no matter where it is or the challenges before them. I am convicted by their zeal and thankful for the opportunity to mentor them. Already they have helped me more than I have them!
You see...They have reminded me of the privilege it is to minister to God's people. To just be thrilled with an opportunity to serve the Lord...No matter what! May we all live and serve like this is our "FIRST CHURCH" not knowing anything except that Jesus saves and still changes lives!
Have a great Lord's day serving HIM!
You see, Andy and Heather only see the potential...They do not see the pitfalls and the struggles. They see souls to be saved, students to disciple and a church that needs them. I hope our folks will realize this tomorrow...That we to need to see the potential...That of a young man and a young women who are just ready to be used of God no matter where it is or the challenges before them. I am convicted by their zeal and thankful for the opportunity to mentor them. Already they have helped me more than I have them!
You see...They have reminded me of the privilege it is to minister to God's people. To just be thrilled with an opportunity to serve the Lord...No matter what! May we all live and serve like this is our "FIRST CHURCH" not knowing anything except that Jesus saves and still changes lives!
Have a great Lord's day serving HIM!
Thursday, December 14, 2006
Back in the Saddle Again!
Well here I go again. After a short stint in blogging yet an extensive effort commenting on other Blogs, and knowing that come the first of the year the rhetoric will only increase in the SBC, I am now officially "BACK IN THE SADDLE"
So here is to interesting dialogue, debate and discussion (how's that for a sermon outline!)
So here is to interesting dialogue, debate and discussion (how's that for a sermon outline!)
Wednesday, June 14, 2006
Greensboro Report
I will post more when I get back to Texas but here is some fast first thoughts.
*Frank Page as President: Dr. Page is our President and he deserves our prayers and support. One of my SBTC staff member friends told me that Dr. Page is a wonderful soul winner, pastor and will make a great Pres. I concur. I look forward to his work with Southern Baptists.
* The convention was much more unified than what folks thought. If we are divided, it is methodology vs. theology. It seems the most controversial issue to come out of Greensboro besides the IMB thing may be the 'drinking' issue.
* East Coast BBQ is AWFUL!!!! Where's the beef?
* Casting Crowns ROCKS!
* Cliff Barrows leading the convention in "How great thou art" = AWESOME!
* Memo to the SBC Leadership gang...stop lobbing grenades at the bloggers...you are just making yourself look bitter ad mad. Practice some grace! The bloggers are "good kids'
* That blue light special thing at the Lifeway booth drove me crazy!!!!
* The Guilford Courthouse battleground...very cool!
* Micah Fries looks like a young Al Franken
that's it for now...will start the drive home to Texas tomorrow..Later
*Frank Page as President: Dr. Page is our President and he deserves our prayers and support. One of my SBTC staff member friends told me that Dr. Page is a wonderful soul winner, pastor and will make a great Pres. I concur. I look forward to his work with Southern Baptists.
* The convention was much more unified than what folks thought. If we are divided, it is methodology vs. theology. It seems the most controversial issue to come out of Greensboro besides the IMB thing may be the 'drinking' issue.
* East Coast BBQ is AWFUL!!!! Where's the beef?
* Casting Crowns ROCKS!
* Cliff Barrows leading the convention in "How great thou art" = AWESOME!
* Memo to the SBC Leadership gang...stop lobbing grenades at the bloggers...you are just making yourself look bitter ad mad. Practice some grace! The bloggers are "good kids'
* That blue light special thing at the Lifeway booth drove me crazy!!!!
* The Guilford Courthouse battleground...very cool!
* Micah Fries looks like a young Al Franken
that's it for now...will start the drive home to Texas tomorrow..Later
Monday, June 12, 2006
Greensboro
Well it has been a few days since I last posted due to the fact that have been driving through half of America. What a wonderful and beautiful country we live in. Man, you folks in Tennessee are blessed! Some of the prettiest country I have ever seen! I was thrilled to learn yesterday the a supply preacher who filled in for me shared with my folks that he was glad and excited to be in the pulpit, he would be praying for our convention but he does not go because "I don't get into the political stuff like your pastor does" GREAT!!!! Thanks a lot friend! Anyway, I got to the conference in time to catch the last part of Johnny Hunt ad leave when the the "Tele - Preacher" came on. I think Rick Warren is a great guy but if I want to see him via video I will pay the $$$$$ to be a Purpose Driven Church : ) After that I had dinner at Carabas with a good look'en woman...Got heartburn, fell asleep and dreamed about falling off mountain roads. I hear it is a good thing I missed the first preacher or else I would have heart burn before I had dinner
After dinner Mrs Jack and I stopped a the local Walgreens and there we met "John" John is a crack addicted young man who was pan handeling outside the store. I asked him if he was on anything and he admited he was coming down from crack and was simply hungry. We bought him dinner and had prayer with him. He claimed he was a christian and I can only hope he is...by the looks of him unless God intervenes he had less than 3 months here on thi world. Please keep him in your prayers.
Today I enjoyed the breakout sessions with the denom "Brainiacks" I thought Dr. Patterson and Dr. Mohler did a great job! It was a lovefest and as it should be. I love Dr. P and he is and has been a blessing in my life but don't you know if it was a real debate that Mohler would have dismantled him, bad eyes and all! I thought both guys did a great job of destroying some straw men!
I got to meet Paul Burleson, great guy and we share a common deacon...and then my wife and I enjoyed Mark Dever and the Church Discipline conference. According to the Queen Bee, when we get back to Dodge, we will discipline the whole bunch and start all over again!
Let's just hope God doesn't have to the same thing with us in Greensboro!
Blessings and hope to see you this week
After dinner Mrs Jack and I stopped a the local Walgreens and there we met "John" John is a crack addicted young man who was pan handeling outside the store. I asked him if he was on anything and he admited he was coming down from crack and was simply hungry. We bought him dinner and had prayer with him. He claimed he was a christian and I can only hope he is...by the looks of him unless God intervenes he had less than 3 months here on thi world. Please keep him in your prayers.
Today I enjoyed the breakout sessions with the denom "Brainiacks" I thought Dr. Patterson and Dr. Mohler did a great job! It was a lovefest and as it should be. I love Dr. P and he is and has been a blessing in my life but don't you know if it was a real debate that Mohler would have dismantled him, bad eyes and all! I thought both guys did a great job of destroying some straw men!
I got to meet Paul Burleson, great guy and we share a common deacon...and then my wife and I enjoyed Mark Dever and the Church Discipline conference. According to the Queen Bee, when we get back to Dodge, we will discipline the whole bunch and start all over again!
Let's just hope God doesn't have to the same thing with us in Greensboro!
Blessings and hope to see you this week
Wednesday, June 07, 2006
Nice...Really nice!
Here is Ben Coles new post on his blog Baptist Blogger
This is an example of what I have been trying to say about character attacks and un Christlike innuendo. Sorry Ben...It is wrong and you ought to retract it!
This is an example of what I have been trying to say about character attacks and un Christlike innuendo. Sorry Ben...It is wrong and you ought to retract it!
Tuesday, June 06, 2006
This is Great Stuff!
Came across these very good comments today concerning unhealthy and unbiblical rhetoric. Thought you might check em out!
To Ben Cole on his blog, Baptist Blogger:
fishformen said...
Ben,
I have read the Memphis declaration and I agree with much of it. I certianly agree with the nepotism problems. I do however, want to make a statement. Before I do let me list my aquaintences and relationships so you don't have to do all the work. I am a graduate of SEBTS (1998); I served churches under the leadership of Dr Jim Cogdill and Bill Bowyer. In all my years as a SBC minister I have attended 2 conventions and I will not be in Greensboro because I will be in El Salvador doing evangelism.
My statement comes from Watchman Nee, whom those I have served under and educated under would probably dismiss as a heretic (certianly some conservatives have been opposed to his views).
Nee in his work "Spiritual Authority" talks of the relationship of King David and King Saul. Saul was the sitting King, already rejected by God but still sitting on the throne. David was the annointed king by God and yet had to wait 13 years to realize this in Israel. The point is David never publically spoke negatively, critically or in a fashion to demean Saul. David even repented of the fact that he took opportunity to humiliate Saul as he took part of his robe. I, for the Kingdom sake, ask you to refrain from the public retoric concerning Dr. Patterson. What is at stake is not his character or yours, but Christ's. Your publicizing of discontent, in my view, only serves Satan's agenda by confusing legitimnate issues with personal assaults. Our shame is that all can see your blog, including the lost. If indeed you feel Patterson is wrong, then pray for God to convict him or remove him of his leadership and influence. Ben, pursue kingdom endevours and let God get the glory for moving him on, not your reseach and retoric and digging of the dirt for his demise. I consider Nee's book a must read.
Chris Gilliam
Mike said...
What was Memphis anyway? I was thrilled and excited about God's activity but it is hard to see the results sometime. Why not write stuff that is edifying to Christ and builds up the body of Christ instead of what "appears" to be coming in the next few days. I am discouraged and concerned of both sides. We need more knee time with our computers and mouths shut and closed and our eyes, hearts, and spirits open to what God is saying. We need a revival in the deepest sense BEFORE anything else is done. I am ashamed to be SBC in the world today. I strongly urge you to be a unifier. You are capable it seems.
PiercedandHealed said...
It seems that you are saying that anyone ever associated with Paige Patterson should not be allowed to hold any office or position within the SBC comm.?? That will probably rule out the majority of the people.
The names are published and they are out for anyone to see and they are no secret, so things are not happening "under the radar". Conversely, I don't remember reading in the Bible that God would "gloriously announce to all His intentions so they may come up for voter approval before said intentions are put into practice".
The problem here is the magnification of the fundamental flaw in humanity... not getting our way. When we are not getting our way or when we do not have control over things we feel we should control we try to rally support to justify our feelings however misguided or wrong they may be. God never said he will talk about who is right and go from there... His Word tells us that we are to stop complaining, whining and moaning. We are to listen and FOLLOW and though we may not understand HIS WAYS we are to follow HIS WORD.
We tend to get caught up in the idea that it is all about us and the way we think things should progress. Yet, if we trace back history we will see that MAN messed it up in the first place and since then we have been doomed to repeat it... and doing a great job of it.
KJAnNWA said...
Somebody has way too much time on his hands!
Hey - that last one is true of all of us in Blogtown!
Blessings
JM
To Ben Cole on his blog, Baptist Blogger:
fishformen said...
Ben,
I have read the Memphis declaration and I agree with much of it. I certianly agree with the nepotism problems. I do however, want to make a statement. Before I do let me list my aquaintences and relationships so you don't have to do all the work. I am a graduate of SEBTS (1998); I served churches under the leadership of Dr Jim Cogdill and Bill Bowyer. In all my years as a SBC minister I have attended 2 conventions and I will not be in Greensboro because I will be in El Salvador doing evangelism.
My statement comes from Watchman Nee, whom those I have served under and educated under would probably dismiss as a heretic (certianly some conservatives have been opposed to his views).
Nee in his work "Spiritual Authority" talks of the relationship of King David and King Saul. Saul was the sitting King, already rejected by God but still sitting on the throne. David was the annointed king by God and yet had to wait 13 years to realize this in Israel. The point is David never publically spoke negatively, critically or in a fashion to demean Saul. David even repented of the fact that he took opportunity to humiliate Saul as he took part of his robe. I, for the Kingdom sake, ask you to refrain from the public retoric concerning Dr. Patterson. What is at stake is not his character or yours, but Christ's. Your publicizing of discontent, in my view, only serves Satan's agenda by confusing legitimnate issues with personal assaults. Our shame is that all can see your blog, including the lost. If indeed you feel Patterson is wrong, then pray for God to convict him or remove him of his leadership and influence. Ben, pursue kingdom endevours and let God get the glory for moving him on, not your reseach and retoric and digging of the dirt for his demise. I consider Nee's book a must read.
Chris Gilliam
Mike said...
What was Memphis anyway? I was thrilled and excited about God's activity but it is hard to see the results sometime. Why not write stuff that is edifying to Christ and builds up the body of Christ instead of what "appears" to be coming in the next few days. I am discouraged and concerned of both sides. We need more knee time with our computers and mouths shut and closed and our eyes, hearts, and spirits open to what God is saying. We need a revival in the deepest sense BEFORE anything else is done. I am ashamed to be SBC in the world today. I strongly urge you to be a unifier. You are capable it seems.
PiercedandHealed said...
It seems that you are saying that anyone ever associated with Paige Patterson should not be allowed to hold any office or position within the SBC comm.?? That will probably rule out the majority of the people.
The names are published and they are out for anyone to see and they are no secret, so things are not happening "under the radar". Conversely, I don't remember reading in the Bible that God would "gloriously announce to all His intentions so they may come up for voter approval before said intentions are put into practice".
The problem here is the magnification of the fundamental flaw in humanity... not getting our way. When we are not getting our way or when we do not have control over things we feel we should control we try to rally support to justify our feelings however misguided or wrong they may be. God never said he will talk about who is right and go from there... His Word tells us that we are to stop complaining, whining and moaning. We are to listen and FOLLOW and though we may not understand HIS WAYS we are to follow HIS WORD.
We tend to get caught up in the idea that it is all about us and the way we think things should progress. Yet, if we trace back history we will see that MAN messed it up in the first place and since then we have been doomed to repeat it... and doing a great job of it.
KJAnNWA said...
Somebody has way too much time on his hands!
Hey - that last one is true of all of us in Blogtown!
Blessings
JM
On Perceptions, Pandering and Politics
I will never forget it, circa early to mid 90's. Every year I would attend the Baptist General Convention of Texas and subject myself and our church messengers to the onslaught of moderate opposition to anything that remotely looked like the SBC. I recall the unkind words and the absolute anger that resonated from the moderate movers and shakers in Texas. One thing I was very aware of, these folks were mad! They were mad because their vision and idea of what the SBC should be had been 'taken' from them. The Power hungry, political, maniacal, uncaring, theological blood thirsty FUNDIES had 'stolen' the convention. IT WAS A TAKEOVER!!!! And to them the machine had its eyes on TEXAS! Their battle cry? "Not on our Watch!" "We will save BAYLOR from the Fundies!" How did they save Baylor? They stole it, but that's another story. So the moderates began their campaign to 'save' Texas from the 'evil empire'. What about this fundamentalist machine, which had its eyes on Texas? Some machine! The closest thing that it ever came to what could be called a takeover was garnishing about 42% of the presidential vote one year. We could not even get a clear word on abortion through the resolutions process. What machine? The machine was so great and strong that it finally shut down and started it's own convention, which is 1/2 the size of the very moderate BGCT.
There was no MACHINE
There was no attempt at takeover
There was no back room leadership
What there was however was Baptist who had a differing view on how a denomination or better yet a convention ought to represent the churches in its membership. In the case of Texas, the moderates won...fair enough...Baptist vote, somebody prevails, somebody does not. That's the way it is. In our National convention that's the way it is also. There is a political process in all of this because that is the polity to which we hold. We are a body politic. Our politics are based upon our theology, or ideology and our methodology. This is not anything new folks. Baptist have always been a people of schism. Fortunately in Texas we recognize this in the Southern Baptist of Texas Convention and we do require theological accountability in order to be a cooperating church. This works well for us on the theological level. It insures that our battles will be family affairs and will not fall under the auspice of doctrinal infidelity.
There are those who see some kind of a draconian, dark, behind the scenes machine that exists in the current SBC. It sounds a lot like the conspiracy theories about the area 51 cover up, The 'illuminati', 'Big Brother' watching. No one can be in charge except the 'dark masters' say so. It really would be quite humorous except in the entire fray people get maligned and hurt. (And I do realize it cuts both ways) The truth of the matter is the current SBC leadership is more like the town of Stanton, Texas than it is the former Moscow, Russia. On the outside of the Stanton city limits some time back there was a sign that read "WELCOME TO STANTON, HOME OF THE FINEST FOLKS IN THE WORLD... AND JUST A FEW SORE HEADS!" In Southern Baptist leadership I will assure you we have some of the finest folks around...and probably a few soreheads also! Are there people in the SBC enamored with their position? Probably. Could there be folks who say and do unkind things? I would imagine. Are there those who use their positions for personal privilege? It is certainly possible. But the truth is that most if not the very greatest part of the trustees, agency heads, leaders, movers and shakers in the SBC are folks who are just like us. They are Pastors, Missionaries, professors, teachers, deacons, mothers and fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers who love the Lord and love the SBC. There greatest concern is not the convention itself but their local church and what is going on there. They have been appointed by people who know them and respect them (And may even be related to them...GASP!!!!!!) who believe they will do a good job representing the best interest of the convention. We as Baptist trust them to do so. Almost always they do a grand job
If they betray our trust we have a system to deal with it through the convention.
If we disagree with them from time to time (and we will ) we have the right to say so. And if there needs to be change, we see to it that it happens (Can you say 1979?)
But to demonize, malign, and call into question ones integrity based upon who is appointed and who is not based upon a body politic, all the while you have the privilege to take part in the same process...well that is wrong, and most Baptist know it! It also betrays the very strong convictions that the majority of Baptist hold to as demonstrated by recent votes. To say that the "machine' dictates and runs things is to say that Baptist people cannot think for their selves and regulate their own convention. Again, can you say 1979?
We have a great convention...We will have a grand time in Greensboro as we meet to fellowship, sing, preach, witness and serve together. Yes, we will have a business meeting or two also...There are three fine men who will contend for the office of President. Baptist will vote, Baptist will win and Baptist will lose. Then we will all go back home to the local church where life happens. My prayer is that what we say and how we say it in Greensboro will not make our jobs even more difficult once we get home.
I just wish we would practice the same thing on some of our blogs!
There was no MACHINE
There was no attempt at takeover
There was no back room leadership
What there was however was Baptist who had a differing view on how a denomination or better yet a convention ought to represent the churches in its membership. In the case of Texas, the moderates won...fair enough...Baptist vote, somebody prevails, somebody does not. That's the way it is. In our National convention that's the way it is also. There is a political process in all of this because that is the polity to which we hold. We are a body politic. Our politics are based upon our theology, or ideology and our methodology. This is not anything new folks. Baptist have always been a people of schism. Fortunately in Texas we recognize this in the Southern Baptist of Texas Convention and we do require theological accountability in order to be a cooperating church. This works well for us on the theological level. It insures that our battles will be family affairs and will not fall under the auspice of doctrinal infidelity.
There are those who see some kind of a draconian, dark, behind the scenes machine that exists in the current SBC. It sounds a lot like the conspiracy theories about the area 51 cover up, The 'illuminati', 'Big Brother' watching. No one can be in charge except the 'dark masters' say so. It really would be quite humorous except in the entire fray people get maligned and hurt. (And I do realize it cuts both ways) The truth of the matter is the current SBC leadership is more like the town of Stanton, Texas than it is the former Moscow, Russia. On the outside of the Stanton city limits some time back there was a sign that read "WELCOME TO STANTON, HOME OF THE FINEST FOLKS IN THE WORLD... AND JUST A FEW SORE HEADS!" In Southern Baptist leadership I will assure you we have some of the finest folks around...and probably a few soreheads also! Are there people in the SBC enamored with their position? Probably. Could there be folks who say and do unkind things? I would imagine. Are there those who use their positions for personal privilege? It is certainly possible. But the truth is that most if not the very greatest part of the trustees, agency heads, leaders, movers and shakers in the SBC are folks who are just like us. They are Pastors, Missionaries, professors, teachers, deacons, mothers and fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers who love the Lord and love the SBC. There greatest concern is not the convention itself but their local church and what is going on there. They have been appointed by people who know them and respect them (And may even be related to them...GASP!!!!!!) who believe they will do a good job representing the best interest of the convention. We as Baptist trust them to do so. Almost always they do a grand job
If they betray our trust we have a system to deal with it through the convention.
If we disagree with them from time to time (and we will ) we have the right to say so. And if there needs to be change, we see to it that it happens (Can you say 1979?)
But to demonize, malign, and call into question ones integrity based upon who is appointed and who is not based upon a body politic, all the while you have the privilege to take part in the same process...well that is wrong, and most Baptist know it! It also betrays the very strong convictions that the majority of Baptist hold to as demonstrated by recent votes. To say that the "machine' dictates and runs things is to say that Baptist people cannot think for their selves and regulate their own convention. Again, can you say 1979?
We have a great convention...We will have a grand time in Greensboro as we meet to fellowship, sing, preach, witness and serve together. Yes, we will have a business meeting or two also...There are three fine men who will contend for the office of President. Baptist will vote, Baptist will win and Baptist will lose. Then we will all go back home to the local church where life happens. My prayer is that what we say and how we say it in Greensboro will not make our jobs even more difficult once we get home.
I just wish we would practice the same thing on some of our blogs!
Monday, June 05, 2006
The times they are a chang'en
Looks like many in Blogtown are starting to realize that the rhetoric by some exceeds their idea of 'principled dissent', Good for them!!!
Here is a telling post on Wes Kenny's site that deals with the inconsistency of the Memphis Declaration in light of the rhetoric coming from some who have signed it. I like Wes's posts and I hope to meet him in Greensboro.
Here is a telling post on Wes Kenny's site that deals with the inconsistency of the Memphis Declaration in light of the rhetoric coming from some who have signed it. I like Wes's posts and I hope to meet him in Greensboro.
Wednesday, May 31, 2006
Proper Priorities
I love reading Oswald Chambers. His devotional works have been a source of blessing and challenge to me through the years. Some of his theology can be problematic but his application more often than not is dead on! Did you read today's entry? He makes the point that often times we trust man in disregard to God. His premise is that this is why many times we are frustrated and disappointed by man and his/her behavior to the point of utter despair.
"If I put my trust in human beings first, the end result will be my despair and hopelessness toward everyone. I will become bitter because I have insisted that people be what no person can ever be absolutely perfect and right. Never trust anything in yourself or in anyone else, except the grace of God."
We all need the work of grace in our lives in order to be fit for the Masters use! I amsurprisedd somewhat knowing Chambers view on sanctification that he admits this! Could it be the reason we see the petty quarrels and the back biting in our church's (and dare I say convention?) is due to the fact that we have placed man above God inpriority?
"Our Lord never put His trust in any person. Yet He was never suspicious, never bitter, and never lost hope for anyone, because He put His trust in God first. He trusted absolutely in what God's grace could do for others."
I know I need to hear this 'blast from the past' How bout you?
Swindoll said it this way, "Never be caught unawarere by the tendancy of people to dance the dance of the foolish"
Or maybe one of our old children's choruses fits even better:
"He's still working on me..."
aren't ya glad He is?
I love you all
Jack Maddox
"If I put my trust in human beings first, the end result will be my despair and hopelessness toward everyone. I will become bitter because I have insisted that people be what no person can ever be absolutely perfect and right. Never trust anything in yourself or in anyone else, except the grace of God."
We all need the work of grace in our lives in order to be fit for the Masters use! I amsurprisedd somewhat knowing Chambers view on sanctification that he admits this! Could it be the reason we see the petty quarrels and the back biting in our church's (and dare I say convention?) is due to the fact that we have placed man above God inpriority?
"Our Lord never put His trust in any person. Yet He was never suspicious, never bitter, and never lost hope for anyone, because He put His trust in God first. He trusted absolutely in what God's grace could do for others."
I know I need to hear this 'blast from the past' How bout you?
Swindoll said it this way, "Never be caught unawarere by the tendancy of people to dance the dance of the foolish"
Or maybe one of our old children's choruses fits even better:
"He's still working on me..."
aren't ya glad He is?
I love you all
Jack Maddox
Tuesday, May 30, 2006
Principled Dissent versus Purposeful Defamation
In our church we are in the very beginning of a major building program. I would love to say that everyone is on board and we have complete agreement. Sadly, that is not the case. There are many who have some serious reservations concerning the plans and process of this program. In our church we have a polity which allows for these folks voice to be heard. Although they are in the minority, they still are valued and their council sought. This is the idea of principled dissent and it is a very precious commodity in Baptist life. Without it the conservative resurgence would never have got off the ground. It is my opinion that it is the lack of this precious right that has allowed many of the mainline denominations to have been lost to liberalism and universalism. The man in the pew in these great mainline denoms does not concur with his leadership but he has no voice. Because Baptist folk had a voice we were able to turn the tide in our Southern Baptist Zion. One of the most frustrating things however about principled dissent is that often times the dissenter feels the need to replace Christian maturity with carnal militancy. I have seen this in my own ministry with folks I serve and sadly, in my own life from time to time. Many the time I have had to visit with precious people concerning their spirit and their attitude in their attempt to speak what they feel is a prophetic voice . I have observed many good brothers and sisters drift very slowly from a mantle of principled dissent to what seems to be a purposeful defamation, where we must contend with a man instead of simply Warring against the spirit which we feel drives him. When this happens we often will find ourselves in danger of loosing not only the battle but also coming dangerously close to surrendering the war! However, whena man or women stands on principled dissent from the mantle of Christian maturity there will be some obvious traits:
1) Their dissent will be seasoned with love.
This is seen clearly in the principled dissent of IMB trustee Wade Burleson. His blog is absolutely seasoned with his love for the Lord, his fellow trustees and the SBC! I may have some disagreement with Bro. Wade over some of the issues which he is concerned about, and perhaps even the forum in which he shared them (On this I have no clear position as of yet) however I have no quarrel with the tone and the maturity which is seen in his posts.
2) Their dissent will seek the glory of God and have His fame as their highest concern
Our concern must always be with the glory of God. No where in scripture are we given liberty to even be remotely concerned with our own opinions and agendas, especially when there is no biblical basis for said opinions or agendas. We must be committed simply and solely to the business of building the kingdom and seeking out and implementing Gods agenda in all that we do. Some of my concerns with some in the Baptist blogosphere is that there seems to be a agenda of personal retribution rather than the pursuit of the pleasures of God.
3) Their dissent will be void of personal attacks and fleshly reactions.
There is no room in the realm of Christlike Christian maturity for name calling, innuendo and character defamation. Principled dissent stands on the authority of Gods word, not pragmatism based upon slippery ideology, yet piety based upon firm theology. It is void of a party spirit and resonates with a 1 Corinthians 13 kind of ethic.
However, because we are all fallen creatures, there is the tendency in the midst of principled dissent to slip downward into the arena of purposeful defamation. This is when we replace love with agenda seeking. When we use pejorative terms in order to elevate our position based upon the perception of wrong doing by another. We overly generalize and lump all kinds of folks in the same mold. The result is a Carnal Militancy rather than Christian Maturity.
The traits of Carnal Militancy are, yet not limited to:
1) Name calling instead of concentrating on the issues
2) presupposing motive in place of Christlike dialogue
3) A party mentality which seeks the good of the group instead of the fame of Jesus and the glory of our God
4) A concentration on personality instead of the opinion or issue of the personality
God help us all as we approach the Southern Baptist Convention to seek out the heart of our Father and when we must dissent on an issue, we do so with maturity and with the single goal of sharing His love not only with a lost and dying world, but also with the family that God has placed us in called Southern Baptists.
I Love You All
Jack Maddox
1) Their dissent will be seasoned with love.
This is seen clearly in the principled dissent of IMB trustee Wade Burleson. His blog is absolutely seasoned with his love for the Lord, his fellow trustees and the SBC! I may have some disagreement with Bro. Wade over some of the issues which he is concerned about, and perhaps even the forum in which he shared them (On this I have no clear position as of yet) however I have no quarrel with the tone and the maturity which is seen in his posts.
2) Their dissent will seek the glory of God and have His fame as their highest concern
Our concern must always be with the glory of God. No where in scripture are we given liberty to even be remotely concerned with our own opinions and agendas, especially when there is no biblical basis for said opinions or agendas. We must be committed simply and solely to the business of building the kingdom and seeking out and implementing Gods agenda in all that we do. Some of my concerns with some in the Baptist blogosphere is that there seems to be a agenda of personal retribution rather than the pursuit of the pleasures of God.
3) Their dissent will be void of personal attacks and fleshly reactions.
There is no room in the realm of Christlike Christian maturity for name calling, innuendo and character defamation. Principled dissent stands on the authority of Gods word, not pragmatism based upon slippery ideology, yet piety based upon firm theology. It is void of a party spirit and resonates with a 1 Corinthians 13 kind of ethic.
However, because we are all fallen creatures, there is the tendency in the midst of principled dissent to slip downward into the arena of purposeful defamation. This is when we replace love with agenda seeking. When we use pejorative terms in order to elevate our position based upon the perception of wrong doing by another. We overly generalize and lump all kinds of folks in the same mold. The result is a Carnal Militancy rather than Christian Maturity.
The traits of Carnal Militancy are, yet not limited to:
1) Name calling instead of concentrating on the issues
2) presupposing motive in place of Christlike dialogue
3) A party mentality which seeks the good of the group instead of the fame of Jesus and the glory of our God
4) A concentration on personality instead of the opinion or issue of the personality
God help us all as we approach the Southern Baptist Convention to seek out the heart of our Father and when we must dissent on an issue, we do so with maturity and with the single goal of sharing His love not only with a lost and dying world, but also with the family that God has placed us in called Southern Baptists.
I Love You All
Jack Maddox
Monday, May 29, 2006
Dr. Akin interview
Thought this was an interesting interview from a man of integrity in our SBC leadership....or perhaps I am simply a sheep who is duped and I have drank of the kool aid one time to many and he is in all actuality a power hungry, blood thirsty maniacal power broker...Anyway, you read it yourself and make your own mind up.
http://www.sebts.edu/olivepressonline/index.cfm?PgType=2&ArticleID=429
http://www.sebts.edu/olivepressonline/index.cfm?PgType=2&ArticleID=429
Sunday, March 26, 2006
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